onlymorelove

I'm actually quite interested in the answers to this too.
I pretty much vomit on the page... other than jotting down snippets of convo or scenes that pop in my head, the idea controls me, not vice versa.

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shipperatheart.livejournal.com

"I pretty much vomit on the page"

Yeah, thanks for that lovely image, space! ;-D

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:p

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I hear ya; like you and TT, I have ideas and dialog that I'll slap in various documents, but most of the "stuff" actually happens when I'm writing.

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For those writers who outline or do intensive pre-planning...
*happy sigh*
Planning makes me happy.

The way that generally works best for me is writing out a basic outline first of all with as much detail as I have at the time.

Generally as I get further into the outline, I think of things I need to add in earlier; for example, if x is the killer, I should've had him in the background during this section so that he can see event a, and then I'll also add him in here to leave a clue that he had opportunity to kill person y.

It's also good for adding character notes; if I want to introduce person z's secret best friend, I need to drop hints earlier in the story that she exists instead of just springing it on people. (I find it easier to do this part by hand so I can scribble and draw arrows as necessary.)

Once I have the scribble-covered outline, I write it up again, a bit more neatly, and try to break it down into scenes that I want to write. This usually comes out as a short paragraph per 'scene' with as much description as I have at that moment in time.

Example:
- M. is leaving work, flirts openly with S, mentions their meeting at the motel later. As he heads up to his car, he gets a call from his wife(Annie?), claims he's working late. Bumps into janitor as he's leaving. (Passes other people as well - parking attendant?) Wife complains, obvious that he's done this before, but he is unfazed and keeps lying. Hangs up, gets to car, is thinking about S more than wife. Feels faint, falls to ground, sees someone walking over. Recognizes person, starts to speak to him, but passes out.
- B. walks into Jeff. the next morning...

Depending on chapter length, each bullet point paragraph would be about one chapter. (If the scenes are short, sometimes two bullet points per chapter.) With this layout, I usually go through and write a timeline at the sides, just saying Day 1, Day 2 etc. so I know how much time is passing.

After those two outlines (sorry, it's a fairly epic process but I enjoy it), I start to write it but do short chapter outlines first. For example, before the first chapter in a recent story, I had the outline of the next three chapters in my head, especially the starting and stopping points. At chapter 4, I started a new word doc for each of the chapters 4 to 8 and wrote a brief outline to try to work out how fast the action would be happening and also to eliminate unnecessary scenes. I can now also go to these docs to add quotes or lines of narrative that suddenly occur...

Short summary of my long-winded methods:
-General outline with annotations added
-Scene by scene outline with details and timeline.
-Start writing, but have a plan for the few chapters ahead, complete with adjustments and writing/dialogue/POV notes if necessary.

Phew, that was a long post. Sorry if I was rambly, but I hope there was at least something useful there. :)

Edited to fix even more HTML. Oops x2.

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*happy sigh*
Planning makes me happy.

HURRAH! I'm not the only one in the bunch! And not planning makes me nervous and crazy. I can't stand not knowing where I'm going in a piece.

This was fascinating (to me anyway) to read as you and I/we don't do it that differently at it's core. From the bullet points to the detailed timeline, you know exactly where you are going and what you will be doing before you ever set hands to keyboard.

Your logic and organizational skills warm my heart, Bert!! :)

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*points to icon*
I am Baldrick. My plans may not always be the sanest of things, but I always have one. Because I'm anally retentive like that. :)

you and I/we don't do it that differently
LOL, I just read yours and was thinking the exact same thing! You obviously take a lot more time with yours, what with the technical details and consultation, whereas with my current plan, I'm more with the "and then they have angry!sex, and then they have guilty!sex..." framework.

But yeah, I like to know what the end will be before I start writing otherwise I'll get stuck/bored and never finish anything. :)

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with my current plan, I'm more with the "and then they have angry!sex, and then they have guilty!sex..."

Bwahahahahahahaha! Not that there's anything wrong with that! Bring on the smut...

But yeah, I like to know what the end will be before I start writing otherwise I'll get stuck/bored and never finish anything. :)

Yes! No unfinished pieces. That's an absolute with me...

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whereas with my current plan, I'm more with the "and then they have angry!sex, and then they have guilty!sex..." framework

*wants to read ... worries she's writing more slash in a different fandom ... cries*

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You weren't rambly; I asked a question, and you answered it in a very helpful way. So thank you for taking the time to do that! I am not much of a planner when it comes to writing fiction. I have a general idea of where things are going, and as snippets of dialog, etc. pop into my head, I'll put them into a document. But most of the "real stuff" actually happens when I'm writing.

That said, I've been wondering if I can streamline the process, make it more efficient, and possibly create a better product, if I can force myself to be more of a planner/outliner. I thought it might be helpful to hear how some "planners" approach the process. If nothing else, I just like to talk shop. *g*

You are awesome for taking the time to give me such a thorough answer; thank you so much for that. *hugs*

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lizook12.livejournal.com

I sort of outline. Not anything real formal, but just an attempt to group things together. What I do once I have a general idea is try to break the idea into a few distinct parts. Under those parts I'll list what action or snips of conversation I want to happen there.

For instance, for the Gravedigger fic I just wrote I had the following:

Idea: She's having nightmares re: Gravedigger
   -Booth thinks of past time she's had them
      *First time
          *wanted to make her feel safe
          *just held her
      *Second time
          *She's out of the dream first
          *He wakes up to find her gone?
          *Floor by bed, shaking with suppressed
          tears
          *Laughs shakily - didn't want to wake him
      *This time
          *Waits for her to wake up
          *his own nightmares about not reaching
          her in time
               -"He didn't need a calendar to
                 tell him; he could feel it."
               -Wonders if she's noticed
                    -She needs to observe
               -"Almost lost her once and he
                 didn't even "have" her yet.
                 Then again, they never had
                 really been just partners
   -Comfort one another
      *"Both knowing it's a promise he'll keep"?

So that's what I do. Of course, sometimes there's things I'll end up losing or changing, but that's generally what I work from. Hope it helps.

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Hi! Thanks for answering my question -- and with examples, to boot. *g* It is always so neat to see how different writers approach the process.

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Oh Lord, you've asked for it now. I could spend HOURS talking about our prep.

You're sure you really want to know this?? ;)

Okay, when FauxMaven and I plan a story, one as complicated as 'Human Puzzle in a Packing Crate' or our current one 'Firestorm: Gehenna' we plan it out to the nth degree. It's not our fault, we're geeks; we can't help it (we say that we need a 12-step program...!). But we will not change course half way through, it's all there ahead of time. Also, it's going to take me 6 months to write 'Firestorm', like it did with 'Crate', and I'm human and I forget things. If it's not down on virtual paper, I'm toast.

First thing we do is our research. In this case, as Gib had offered to be our guide through the wonderful world of firefighting, she sent papers and photos and investigative info. We held multiple 3-way MSN conversations and I compiled 3 huge 20 or 25 page documents on fires and fire investigations from those conversations and that info.

The next thing we did was storyline it and that's a job that FauxMaven and I share. We'll discuss where we want the story to go, what we want the case to be, what relationship issues will be involved, if any (I'm a sap, there's ALWAYS a relationship component). Then we move onto the real storyline which is a bulleted Word file that break the story down in time. Monday this will happen, Tuesday this will happen. This goes back and forth until we're both happy with it.

I'll post an example of this storyline after this message as I'm blowing the max size of the allowed post... (quel surprise... I warned you!)

After that we make a chapter table. Literally a table in Word that outlines each chapter, the major activity in that chapter, what day and time the activity is, the chapter number and the chapter title (when we've got that) and any details about it (yes....we're such geeks, that even includes smut!).

Only after all that is done, only then do we start to write. For 'Firestorm', we've managed to stay 4 chapters ahead the whole way. I just published Ch. 9, I've just finished Ch. 13. This allows us to go back and review the chapter that is just about to go up just before it does to make sure it jibes with the later chapters. Real authors write the whole book and can make sure it all matches before anyone outside of their writing circle sees it. We don't have that luxury. But a 4 week gap is working very well. This also allows us to fit in an extra one shot (like we'll be doing next week for the week after that) when inspiration strikes...

We write one chapter a week. The previous chapter goes up on Monday then I take the next 4 or 5 days to write the usual 7,000 - 8,000 words and then we go back and forth tweaking over about 4 to 5 versions until we're both happy (Gib gets a go at it too at this point to make sure that I haven't messed up any fire fighting details). Then my husbands gets a last go at it to hopefully catch any residual spelling whoopsies. While this is going on the chapter about to go up is reviewed and then posted and the cycle starts all over again.

I know, I hear you cry -- LSQ needs a life. Sadly, I like this one... ;)

So that's the planning in a nutshell. It took us probably 3 - 4 whole weeks to plan our Firestorm before we were even ready to write and then we had 4 chapters in the can before we even started to post.

But maybe we go too far? I don't know that anyone else is this precise with their pre-prep and planning, but we write a totally different kind of case fic than anyone else I've ever seen either on FF.net or LJ (definitely on LJ...). With the accurate real-life science and the details that we do, there's no other way to do it and do it right in our opinion.

Hope that helps!

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And here's an example from Firestorm's storyline (names have been removed in case any of your are actually reading this fic so I don't spoil it for you...):
Monday 3:56 am
• Scene of arsonist setting fire. Body lies at his feet, some description of body. Brief description of fire starting, don’t want to give away how, arsonist makes sure that body catches and fire is well seated, last part of scene is arsonist looking back from across the street and admiring his handiwork. Needs to be some comment about the rush arsonist gets from setting the fire…this sets up future fires.
Monday 10:17 am
• B&B are called to the scene of a fire. A federal building has been set on fire (IRS branch office in D.C…this will give Booth some satisfaction and material for wise cracks…who wouldn’t want to see the IRS burn?). The fire starts in the adjacent building, a family owned ladder company, but spreads to the IRS building and initially it is unclear where the fire started (fire spread via conducted/radiated heat and due to door connecting two sides of the building that is now bricked up). The fire marshal declares the fire ‘suspicious in origin’, that’s destruction of government property and thus an FBI case; FBI is called in. While the fire marshal is on scene and tracking the point of origin, a body is found in the adjacent business and B&B are called specifically due to the incinerated condition of the body.
• B&B arrive at the scene complete with the whole team to look at incinerated corpse. Introduction of Zack’s intent to leave the lab, comments about this being his last case with the team before he goes to start his own lab. They will meet Lauren Gilson, D.C. officer for Fire Protection/Fire Marshal. She will explain her role in the investigation, why they are there, the background of the fire as they know it. She was called into the scene as arson was suspected; found body near point of origin.

etc.etc. This literally goes on for 8 full pages. As I write, I cross off what I've done; it helps keep me organized...

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You're sure you really want to know this?? ;)

Haha! Absolutely; I wouldn't have asked if I didn't. :) I love to talk shop.

Thank you very much for taking the time to spell out your process in such detail; I really appreciate it. Your process is very linear, while mine is much less so. I usually have a general sense of where I'm going, and I often have idea files that contain snippets of dialog, plot points I want to include, etc. Much of the "real stuff" happens while I'm writing, though. So I'm not usually flying completely by the seat of my pants, but I do know that some writers -- like you and Bertie -- are MUCH more specific in their planning.

I've been wondering if I might be able to increase my efficiency and create a better final product if I can teach myself to be more of a planner/outliner. I'm not sure yet whether I CAN, but I thought it was worth asking around to see what works for some other folks. :) I'm a big believer in learning from other people.

Thank you again!

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Thank you very much for taking the time to spell out your process in such detail; I really appreciate it.

You're very welcome. See? I'm even long winded in LJ posts...

Your process is very linear, while mine is much less so.

And this is clearly going to be a YMMV kind of thing. I'm a scientist. We do linear for a living. And you just can't take the scientist out of the writer apparently.

I've been wondering if I might be able to increase my efficiency and create a better final product if I can teach myself to be more of a planner/outliner. I'm not sure yet whether I CAN...

Well, give it a try and if it doesn't work, then at least you'll know that the creative side of you just doesn't work with those restrictions in place.

Good luck!

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ladysophiekitty.livejournal.com

I don't plan. I'm the "make up as I go along just knowing a few places where I might stop by along the way" The few times I did plan...well, it didn't turn out well. I too have been asking people though, so I might post as I get more answers. One friend told me this:
The way I plan is I write what is going to happen in a chapter on a note card, one chapter per note card. That way I know what is going to happen but it isn't too overly detailed

Another friend said keep in mind the 5 C's while planning: characters, conflict, complications, climax, and conclusion.

And of course do a lot of what if's. You know how when you come up with something you start going "Oooh, what if this happened?" or whatever? I like to write those down so I can remember.

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buffyangellvr23.livejournal.com

I haven't been doing it as much lately but sometimes I'll scribble things on paper...I used to write entire drafts on paper because I didn't have regular PC access. Now though I often go through it more in my head before I write.

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This is interesting as I never usually plan, but I did plan a bit for my current fic as it seemed to warrant it, but when I started writing I ended up doing it the way I always do, which is have a vague idea where I want to go with something but keep changing my mind as I write LOL.

The only planning ahead I am doing is having lots of docs set up for future chaps and bunging stuff in them when it comes to me.

Stories tend to come to me first of all as snippets of dialogue that I build descriptions and stuff around - which goes a long way to explaining why my fics are light on that kind of stuff *fails*

I think that if I planned in too much detail it would stifle me to be honest, but if I was to write a casefic, obviously that would need planning... which is probably why I've never written one... *looks at Space* Whatever happened to that idea??! *g*

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*wants Temper-Space case fic*
*uses kitty icon as motivation*

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*pets kitty*
nice try.

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You're threatening to shoot the kitty?!
*hastily covers kitty's eyes and pets him reassuringly*
Meanie.

Actually, changed my mind. The post came and I love you lots. :D :D :D

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You're threatening to shoot the kitty?!
No, not really - that icon just seemed to have the expression I was looking for...

Yay for the post! Can't believe all three of you received on the same day... wicked!
Enjoy!
*twiddles thumbs in anticipation of own parcel*

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Haha. Yes, we've discussed our somewhat similar "planning" methods. *g*

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LOL, like Space says above, I kinda vomit on the screen (nice visual for you there).

I'm still getting randomly accosted by stuff though.. the other day I was walking to work and got all this dialogue in my head. I sat on the train and entered it as memos to my mobile phone as I didn't have a pen and paper! *is a dork*

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When it comes to writing, I'm not much of a "linear" thinker. That doesn't mean that people who write like us don't think. It's not like I think I'm a conduit for "God" or a muse or something. Like you, I have odds and ends that come to me, and I'll save those in a doc for future reference. But a lot of description, symbolism, dialogue, etc. comes as I write, in the moment, though I USUALLY have a general sense of where I'm going, even if the specifics don't come until the vomiting stage. ;)

But I have the sense that maybe I could make the process more efficient -- and possibly make the product better -- if I molded myself into more of a planner/outliner. I don't know if that's right, and the point may be moot if I just can't make myself work like that. And yes, for a casefic, it's practically necessary, unless you want a gazillion drafts.

As for your putting notes in your phone, hey, a writer's gotta do what a writer's gotta do! :)

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I don't know if that's right, and the point may be moot if I just can't make myself work like that.

Very true... and I can't, I've tried!

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*looks at Space* Whatever happened to that idea??! *g*

o_O
*shrugs* I still have all the notes... just lost motivation, I guess.
I think there just wasn't enuff BB!sex. ;)

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Bwa ha ha ha! Yeah that'll be it ;) I was only joking, I lost motivation too ... it's a time thing I think.

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